#personality disorders already have a lot of stigma

[plague-of-insomnia]

Petition to have people who have no background in psychology to stop applying personality disorders to kuro characters

[redheadedfailgirl]

At some point the internet decided to make a 1:1 conflation between certain personality disorders and abuse, and it must feel wild, and probably quite dehumanizing, to be a person with one of those disorders who's just regular living. Even if they ARE abusive, it's still wack because it tells them they're always going to be that way, that it's not their choices that make them shitty but this disorder that's just permanently a part of them, and they have an excuse never to improve. It's not them, it's the disorder.

And watching this, it seems to have started with people who are abuse victims looking for a reason they were abused. When you can't make sense of a person's shitty choices, a mental disorder they may or may not have becomes as good a reason as any. And then people starting gathering on places like r/raisedbynarcissists and it becomes more of a place to tell stories about 'that crazy bitch' in your life, and any bad behavior becomes criteria for diagnosis.

Now narcissists take on these larger than life characteristics and apparently supernatural powers, and it seems like there's no interest in understanding why people are this is way, what they're experiencing, and how we can develop an empathetic approach that will actually help people cope and change instead of shaming them and leading them to double down on bad behavior.

None of this is to say that the folks experiencing abuse from a person they suspect to have bpd should put up with that or are obligated to try to fix them. Get out of abusive situations however you can and keep yourself safe. But maybe pathologizing abuse as personality disorders does more to hurt folks than it does to prevent abuse. We can, and do, have support groups similar to the ones mentioned above that discuss abuse as such, without diagnosis as destiny.

HELP THE TIKTOK ABLEISTS ARE SAYING NARCS EYES CAN STRAIGHT UP GO BLACK⁉️⁉️⁉️

bro they think we're mythical fucking demons im done😭😭😭

[kindnessoverperfection]

Please, if you can, take a moment to read and share this because I feel like I'm screaming underwater.

NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) stigma is rampant right now, and seems to be getting progressively worse. Everyone is using it as a buzzword in the worst ways possible, spreading misinformation and hatred against a real disorder.

I could go on a long time about how this happened, why it's factually incorrect (and what the disorder actually IS), why it's harmful, and the changes I'd like to see. But to keep this concise, I'll simply link to a few posts under the cut for further reading.

The point of this post is a plea. Please help stop the spread of stigma. Even in mental health communities, even around others with personality disorders, in neurodivergent "safe" spaces, other communities I thought people would be supportive in (e.g. trans support groups, progressive spaces in general), it keeps coming up. So I'm willing to bet that a lot of people on this site need to see this.

Because it's so hard to exist in this world.

My disorder already makes me feel as if I'm worthless and unlovable, like there's something inherently wrong and damaged about me. And it's so much harder to fight that and heal when my daily life consists of:

Laughing and spending time with my friends, doing my utmost best to connect and stay present and focused on them, trying to let my guards down and be real and believe I'm lovable- when suddenly they throw out the word "narcissist" to describe horrible people or someone they hate, or the conversation turns to how evil "people with narcissistic personality disorder" are. (Seriously, you don't know which of your friends might have NPD and feels like shit when you say those things & now knows that you'd hate them if you knew.)

Trying to look up "mental health positivity for people with npd", "mental health positivity cluster bs", only to find a) none of that, and b) more of the same old vile shit that makes me feel terrible about myself.

Having a hard time (which is constant at this point) and trying to look up resources for myself, only to again, find the same stigma. And no resources.

Not having any clue how to help myself, because even the mental health field is spitting so much vitriol at people with DISORDERS (who they're supposed to be helping!) that there's no solid research or therapy programs for people like me.

Losing close friends when they find out, despite us having had a good relationship before, and them KNOWING me and knowing that I'm not like the trending image of pwNPD. Because now they only see me through the lens of stigma and misinformation.

Hearing the same stigma come up literally wherever I go. Clubs. Meetings. Any online space. At the bus stop. At the mall. At a restaurant. At work. Buzzword of the year that everyone loooves loudly throwing around with their friends or over the phone. Feels awesome for me, makes my day so much better/s

I could go on for a long time, but I'm scared no one will read/rb this if it gets too much longer.

So please. Stop using the word "narcissist" as a synonym for "abusive".

Stop bringing up people you hate who you believe to have NPD because of a stigmatizing article full of misinformation whenever someone with actual NPD opens their mouth. (Imagine if people did that with any other disorder! "Hey, I'm autistic." "Oh... my old roommate screamed at me whenever I made noise around him, and didn't understand my needs, which seems like sensory overload and difficulty with social cues. He was definitely autistic. But as long as you're self-aware and always restraining your innate desire to be an abusive asshole, you're okay I guess, maybe." ...See how offensive and ignorant that is?)

Stop preventing healthcare for people with a disorder just because it's trendy to use us as a scapegoat.

If you got this far, thank you for reading, and please share this if you can. Further reading is under the cut.

NPD Criteria, re-written by someone who actually has NPD

Stigma in the DSM

Common perception of the DSM criteria vs how someone may actually experience them (Keep in mind that this is the way I personally experience these symptoms, and that presentation can vary a lot between individuals)

"Idk, the stigma is right though, because I've known a lot of people with NPD who are jerks, so I'm going to continue to support the blockage of treatment for this condition."

(All of these were written by me, because I didn't want to link to other folks' posts without permission, but if you want to add your own links in reblogs or replies please feel free <3)

[schizopositivity]

If you see any videos online of a mentally ill person in public being filmed without their consent, please report it as harassment. Examples include: a video of someone talking to someone who isn't actually there, a video of someone having strange or erratic behaviors, a video of someone speaking gibberish or talking incoherently, etc.

This is a huge violation of the person in the videos privacy and extremely disrespectful. They could be having the worst day of their life. They could be homeless with no support system or access to care, with nowhere else to be but in public. They might not see that you are filming, and have no idea or control over who sees them in a vulnerable state. Please consider the feelings and safety of the people in these videos, they are already going through enough as it is, you don't need to add to their problems by filming, posting, or even just watching these videos.

No one is better than the mentally ill people in these videos. Everyone is capable of having a mental health crisis that leads to strange behavior in public. How would you feel if someone posted your worst moments online for people to laugh at? These are human beings that deserve the same amount of respect as anyone else in the world. Yes, even if they are homeless, or on drugs, or swearing, or dirty, or disturbing the peace of a public area. That is a human being no matter what.

As someone with schizophrenia, it's so disgusting how often I come across videos like that online (yes, even on Tumblr). A lot of these "strange" behaviors that are being filmed are literally just symptoms of mental illnesses like schizophrenia. The person cannot control what they are doing, and might not be aware that it is perceived as strange. It's also important to acknowledge that people with severe and persistent mental illnesses are at an increased risk of violence by others, homelessness, substance use disorders, being arrested, and being involuntarily committed into psychiatric facilities. Alienating us and reinforcing stigma against us can contribute to those risks. It's also worth noting that paranoia is a symptom of schizophrenia, and knowing that people are willing to film us in public to ridicule us at our vulnerable moments is extremely paranoia inducing. This can cause us to fear going out in public, which leads to isolation, which makes the symptoms of schizophrenia worse.

There is so much risk associated with the filming, posting and viewing of these videos. Plus it further dehumanizes a disenfranchised minority. Is it really worth it? Is the few seconds of "entertainment" really worth all this distress you are causing?

If you want to advocate for mentally ill people, or even just care at all, you must stop this from happening. Don't film people in public without their consent. Don't post videos of people in public without their consent. Don't like, share or comment on videos of people in public filmed without their consent, it just boosts it in the algorithm. Report any instances of this that you see, even if you think "this one's not that bad" or "the person doesn't seem distressed in this one" or "okay but this one is actually funny", no excuses, report it.

[genericpuff]

Hi! So this is coming from a place of genuine concern, LR Persephone isn't going to have DID right? I know you probably can't reveal much but DID is already a very stigmatized disorder so I'm always worried when I see the Signs, I hope you understand lol

I understand fully your concerns, and I hope I can reassure you in my own intentions regarding Kore / Persephone that the goal is not to demonize or stigmatize DID in any way. I actually do regularly interact with a family member who's currently seeking an official diagnosis for it, and have my own firsthand experiences with my own mental health and symptoms of childhood trauma that are intersectional with that of DID. Of course, that doesn't mean that I'm immune to stigmatizing, but rest assured that I am aware of the stigmas surrounding DID and the misconceptions that a lot of people have about it, no thanks to how it's been portrayed in mainstream media.

If I can add some additional and necessary context as to why I chose to write Kore like this, much of how I'm writing her is based on how she was initially presented to us in S1 of LO, particularly through the personification of her wrath:

I really liked this concept and was subsequently disappointed when it seemed to get left behind (though considering how LO turned out, maybe that was for the better lmao) I've always enjoyed these "inner conflict" character dynamics, but I also understand from years of writing characters like this that much of these types of tropes are often intersectional with common misconceptions and stigmas surrounding personality disorders and mental illness.

Within the context of Rekindled, Kore does not specifically have DID but her experiences are clearly intersectional with it. Ultimately my goal is to empathize, not demonize. As much as "Persephone" may be currently presenting herself as a sort of snarky "alter ego" of Kore, she is not evil, no more "evil" than Kore herself, because they're ultimately of the same mind and body, flaws and all. Persephone is often speaking truths that Kore is simply not willing to admit or able to face, the worst of which we've yet to uncover, but will be necessary to overcome. There will certainly be times when Kore's actions - spurred on by the voice of Persephone in her ear - may be ugly or wrong, but I hope in the end that I'll achieve my goal in expressing that everyone - even immortal gods - can always have another chance to heal, to forgive themselves for their past, and to do right by themselves for the sake of a brighter future. This will apply to other gods in the story as well, many of whom also share Kore's struggles and experiences.

And, assuming I do my part and deliver on my promises, there will be closure for Kore/Persephone, the readers who relate to their struggles and experiences, and many of the other characters who were hung out to dry in the original comic. That's definitely one of my biggest goals with this retelling, at least! (•̀ᴗ•́)و It's definitely one of my riskier moves as the nature of the subject is very sensitive, but I'm giving it my all in the hopes that it pays off in a more nuanced and in-depth character arc for Kore/Persephone than what we got in LO that can hopefully be embraced as a message of acceptance and self-love. And y'all can hold me to that (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧

[godtrauma]

one of craziest things about the mental health industry is that while getting their education, counselors and psychiatrists spend about two minutes learning about the "rarer" psychiatric conditions, such as schizophrenia, dissociative identity disorder, and narcissistic personality disorder. the justification behind not studying it is because so few people experience these conditions, and that mental health professionals who want to treat them have to specialize in them.

this is a problem because whether we like to believe it or not, mental health professionals are looking to make money, and there's not a lot of money in targeting a specific part of the population. additionally, people in rural or even a number of urban areas do not have access to specialist who need it. it's just like with any rare health diagnosis, unless you live in a a super densely populated area with a lot of resources, you're not going to get the help you need.

i can confirm this as someone who knows many mental health professionals, and they've been transparent for their lack of education (one even told me that they spent literally an hour in school learning about DID). i've never had the opportunity to meet with someone who specializes in my diagnosis (schizophrenia) due to where i live. and even if i did, i wouldn't have the money. specialists often do not cater to even the most basic insurance like medicaid or medicare, and the reality is that most people with rare mental diagnoses do not have the funds to pursue the help they need.

the point of this post is to bring awareness to some of the struggles that people with rarer psychiatric diagnoses face. we are quite frankly fucked over by the system, and moreover capitalism. please keep this in mind before judging us for "not seeking help" or telling us to "get therapy." we already have so much going against us, and face so much stigma.

[olderthannetfic]

I'm definitely a cunt, and I know some people are gonna be like "how dare u!" but luckily I'm anon, so there's that. But I really hate how obvious it is with a lot of people when they fake having ADHD or ADD, autism, DID, depression, tourette, schizophrenia, BPD, the list goes on, probably the entire fucking psychologists handbook by now. I mean, it's already painfully obvious that shits afoot when it goes from 1 person talking about their experiences to 1000 with all their super special quirks and haha look at me I'm so special, even more special than everybody else. And then a few months most of the those 1000 new people are just back to posting as usual before they had their fun cosplaying as having a random condition.

Worst part is these assholes get to just walk away in a few years, while people who're actually dealing with these mental disorders, illnesses, being neuro divergent have to still deal with it in their day to day life, and we got to deal with the added stigma from all these larpers completely butchering what it's actually like to have these conditions.

And all the people who say that alllll the self diagnosis are definitely just as valid as a real evaluation. I'm for self advocacy and saying maybe I might have this. Trying to find ways to cope with a shit situation, even if you can't afford a real evaluation. That's how many people actually find the strength or the will to get actual help in some form. But people claiming to 100% have a mental disorder, neuro divergence, mental illness, whatever the fuck, because they clapped to the beat of a song, or started breakdancing when the beat drops in some shitty pop song can fuck off. Especially those shit ass videos that are like "if you breathe air, and drink water you might just have aaaaallllll the mental stuff haha knock yourself out, btw besties all the professionals who spent 10+ years studying this shit are wrong, no exception." and then pretend that people with real evaluations shouldn't speak because they have privilege, like what in the fuck?

Self diagnosis can't ever be as safe as getting a real evaluation because there's a too large overlap between vastly different conditions, and just because you have some symptoms from the currently most popular trend on tiktok, doesn't mean you can't have a completely different condition with completely different needs. Saying you might have something is valid, saying you 100% without a doubt have smth bc the internet told you is dangerous and at worst might actively harm you.

--

[unknowinglydeceasedlol]

idk who needs to hear this but you *can* relate to someone’s struggles with a specific disorder without having said disorders

it’s honestly one of my biggest frustrations when you’re venting about a disorder you have or see people talking about it online and then you see people chime in “omg I didn’t think I had this but I relate to this so I have it!” and i don’t mean those people who have genuine concerns about having a specific disorder. (fyi, if you have genuine concerns regarding a specific disorder you may have, this isn’t about you!! it’s perfectly valid to stumble upon a disorder you didn’t know existed that explains your situation perfectly and have questions about it <3)

i’ll use this as an example but if someone is currently struggling through cancer and they vent to you about extreme exhaustion and fatigue, most people wouldn’t be like “omg I feel exhausted and fatigued too!! i must have cancer!” but would probably say something along the lines of “ive struggled through exhaustion and fatigue myself due to other reasons so i can understand what you’re going through and how you feel.” it’s okay to have questions about disorders and want to know more to maybe better situations you’re going through/ are in but just seeing one thing you relate to and claiming a whole disorder because of it can be very damaging to the people who have said disorders.

as someone with a cluster b personality disorder, there’s already so much stigma around them and that’s excluding all my other disorders/ problems. i’ve seen people who have no idea what BPD is, relate to a small portion of it, claim it as something they have with no research into it or professional advice, and then unknowingly play into stereotypes or spread more stigma about it. there’s so much more to a disorder than one or two things you see someone posting about. there’s also a lot of other things someone could have that also change how disorders present themselves in different people.

a person can have disorder A and vent about it but what you don’t know is that they also have disorder B, C, D, and E. although their main post is about disorder A, disorder C, D and E can also be big factors in it without you knowing. you might be relating more to the disorder C and E aspect of it over the “main” disorder A part of it than you really realize.

the purpose of me saying all this is not to be hateful, “gatekeep”, discourage people who genuinely have concerns, want to participate in genuine conversations about these topics, or for any other malicious reason. im just coming at this as a person to who’s genuinely really exhausted. it’s already so hard living with certain disorders and then you see people online who glorify, romanticize, or even fetishize certain disorders while cause harm to those people who genuinely suffer from it.

i stumbled upon someone’s post on a different platform and her whole shtick was “i have BPD but I’m uber normal abt it and not bat shit insane like literally everyone else who has it + having FPs is totally amazing and not super draining and exhausting” and it was honestly heartbreaking. her whole reasoning for having bpd was that she got obsessive over people she was in love with so therefore it was her FPs and got depressed if they didn’t spend time with her.

if you’re genuinely curious and have real concerns, please do your hardest to research it and/ or seek professional advice if possible. don’t put others who have the disorder down when they don’t meet or work with your agenda. thank you.

[shadowqueenjude]

hi, i agree with a lot of what you’ve said in your last post about acotar opinions that should be universal - but would you mind not throwing around diagnoses like that of DID with little to no context? i agree that tamlin was acting out of character to some extant, but i attribute that to sjm’s bad writing more than anything else, and i think pathologising the behaviour of a fictional character who’s already so hated (however unjustly) further contributes to the stigma. i don’t think he changed as much as the narrative’s attitude towards him. i’d be interested to know why you think he has DID because i can’t think of anything that would suggest the same. i apologise if i’m coming off as combative, but as someone who takes issue with the ease with which this fandom throws around words like abuse - or pathologies/labels in general, i can’t help but implore you to think twice about this, or at least explain why you hold this opinion, if you don’t mind.

— i’m also not trying to imply that there’s anything wrong with tamlin or anyone having DID - just that there are a lot of misconceptions about such disorders, and having failed to find evidence supporting the same, wanted to understand your assertion a little bit more. which is to say i don’t want someone to think “if tamlin is bad and tanljn has did then tamljn is bad because he has did, ergo did is bad.” which is a terribly oversimplified statement and a bit of a reach, but within this fandom? i wouldn’t be surprised.

Hello! I am not just making the diagnosis on a whim, I have actually taken psychology courses and Tamlin fulfills many of the DSM-5 symptoms. DID often occurs as a result of severe childhood trauma, and Tamlin, apart from having abusive parents, was sexually harassed as a child by Amarantha which continued long into his adulthood.

I think the age break scenario does personally suit him as a character even more than the personality break.

Because it is at incidences of high intensity. So, not all of the pain he’s suffered is going to result in a crack. But it would build up overtime

For example, leading to the first crack being at childhood meeting with Amarantha, after two years of living with an abusive parent. Which creates a “brain save” in his mind of twelve year old Tamlin. Fast forward to UTM, where I am almost certain Tamlin was raped. Considering he already had past SA from Amarantha, the trauma he experiences UTM is likely to become associated with the experiences of childhood. So the “brain save” of age twelve will then mix with the new age of twenty three / five hundred

And a new crack is formed, creating a need for a new save. Think of it like a computer auto saving. It’s the minds way of seeing a future crash and ensuring that you don’t wake up not knowing who you are. In ACOMAF we see two distinct sides of him. We see one side that is gentle and kind as he was before, and we also see a more violent, panicky side where he seems to be losing control of his magic. If you want to know more, my friend @positivelyruined has actually had DID and recovered from it and she agrees with my diagnosis!

[raspberryberyl]

I'm not the best with words, and I think a few people are already saying these things and doing so better than I could, but I wanted to try to add some of my own points in light of everything happening in the mcyt and generally just cc space. First what I've seen other people are saying: - stop with the "all men bad" rhetoric stuff. point blank. Anyone can be an abuser, anyone can be a victim. Men can be victims, women can be abusers, it doesn't work one way. Not all abusers are men. - on the same note, stop with the TERF ideologies. I know it can be hard to notice, but please think over your words before making a big post that will get all these notes and views. Next point, I know "narcissistic abuse" is a thing people talk about, but it is not a real thing. Phycological or emotional abuse are far better terms, equally valid. Please stop throwing the word "narcissist" around. I know a lot of victims want to describe their abusers as narcissist but this is really vilifying people with NPD and Cluster B disorders. If the person doesn't meet the NPD criteria, or isn't diagnosed, don't call them a narcissist. And remember NOT ALL PEOPLE WITH NPD ARE EVIL AND ABUSERS. - people are rightfully trying to give advice to victims and people hoping they can stop them from going through what they went through, but saying things like "Here's how you defeat a narcissist" or even just "narcissists hate x" is contributing to the stigma that all people with NPD, and also people with Cluster B disorders, are evil, bad, and abusers. Please look for alternative terms. Don't let yourself become part of the problem. Don't let yourself become a reason a victim won't or doesn't feel safe coming out. Listen to victims, and remember not all victims are the same, don't expect victims to act one way. If you think I have said anything wrong please feel free to correct me, also please add on if you have any additional points.

[strawberryraviegutz]

I feel like this needs to be said but..Am I the only one getting annoyed with the “Ame Chan is a bad person/problematic” discourse?? I’m not just talking about the ppl who’ve been complaining about her character saying they “didn’t realize how awful she was”. I’m also talking about ppl being like “lmao yall clearly didn’t play the game of course she’s a horrible person you’re just now realizing that??”

You don’t necessarily have to play a game to be a fan of it. It’s pretty common for ppl to watch gameplay videos or videos covering the story of/analyzing games and characters if they can’t or don’t wanna play it. Second I dont think we should just look at Ame through a black and white lense. Ame’s not a horrible person but she’s not necessarily good either. She’s a very VERY flawed person who struggles with mental health issues and addiction and makes rlly bad decisions and says rlly mean/bad things.

But that’s like…literally everyone on earth. Everyone has flaws especially mentally ill ppl, nobody’s perfect. It’s implied that Ame was literally abandoned/disowned by her parents so of course she’s not going to make the best decision with a “stable” mind especially if you’re desperate.

Ame Chan does terrible things/decisions like taking drugs on stream and self harming on stream and I think she even killed herself on stream too in one ending(tho feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) which is obviously irresponsible and dangerous. And she says things that aren’t necessarily nice or the best(some of it is warranted since some of the ppl in her chat were saying rlly awful, gross and even misogynistic things and calling her “old”).

And while she only wanted to be kangel for attention online, it’s kinda possible that she’s been able to have positive impacts on her fans/audience. We’ve seen how she is with the younger side of her fanbase as Kangel. She’s very kind and compassionate and overall very sweet towards them. Kangel’s entire persona is revolved around reaching out to lonley ppl online who’re struggling and to make them happy.

She may be doing it only for money snd attention, but like most ppl who struggle with mental health issues, they sometimes don’t realize the positive impacts they’ve had on the ppl around them. Hell maybe deep down Ame made Kangel to also help reach out to ppl like her online and make them happy too.

And as for the whole shotacon accusations, Ame Chan is NOT a shotacon. It was a very bad translation error and we all know that most translators aren’t always reliable(especially Google Translate) so please stop spreading that around. It’s been debunked already.

Maybe I’m biased because while I don’t have BPD(at least I don’t think so), have never taken drugs, nor have I ever cut myself in like a very VERY long time(tho I never left any scars cuz i didn’t like pain)and have an anxiety disorder and am autistic, I still sorta relate to/kin Ame Chan.

I’ve had my moments where I’ve had emotional and or violent outbursts(not where I’ve beat someone up or broke anything)due to a rush of emotion and or getting real worked up/frustrated online and irl.

And it’s always rubbed me the wrong way when I’ve been seeing ppl trying to put Ame into the box of “bad/problematic person” whether you’re trying to defend her character or not. It’s a lot more complex and morally grey than that and I think characters like her being in media are important to lessen the stigma of mental health whether it be in Japan or worldwide.

Feel free to correct me and fill me in on stuff if I missed anything or left anything out but in conclusion, Ame Chan is a not a good person, but she’s not necessarily a monster and or all bad either and I think ppl on both sides should realize that.

[furiousgoldfish]

I wasn't going to write personal posts on this topic, but this one is for all of the people who insist we are not allowed to call out narcissists for their actions, we are not allowed to call it 'narcissistic abuse', and what we're doing by saying that, is in fact, stigmatizing and marginalizing a group of people with a disorder.

I understand all of you want to be kind, and not accuse someone of being abusive, if they're presumed to be struggling with a disorder. Being accused yourself, that you're creating stigma if you do it, can feel uncomfortable and wrong. And to accuse those who are struggling the worst, of stigmatizing if they speak up about abuse, can be devastating.

Stigma, however, is not created in small, isolated communities of people who have no public voice, it's not created in the space where people go when they have nowhere else to turn to. The public does not listen to victims, they listen to the framing that makes it the easiest to ignore abuse. Which is, coincidentally, the abuser's narrative.

Hearing that narcissists are to be protected and that to say otherwise is evil, can easily take vigor if the most loud, aggressive and forceful people are yelling it, in a community of mostly scared, vulnerable individuals. So you relent and decide, it's simply kind to just defend whoever has a disorder, no matter what it is, no matter the consequences. You find it easier to not do research, to not look at reality, but pick whatever is the most convenient. If people yelling the loudest are saying 'narcissistic abuse doesn't exist! you're hurting people by saying it does!' then it's the easiest to repeat it and accept that it's right.

So now let's scale back a bit, and look at what is going on specifically in the community of abused and traumatized people on tumblr. You have a group of people who are claiming that the narcissists abused them, who can recount horrific, devastating, destructive, traumatic and severely damaging experiences of abuse by narcissistic parents or partners. People who have developed dissociative disorders, complex trauma, chronic conditions and a whole ordeal of mental disorders due to the extensive, long lasting abuse. Most of these people were children, when exposed to the narcissists. Most of these people have loved those narcissists with all of their hearts. For the most of them, it took half of their lifetime to realize abuse was going on, and that their symptoms were not imagined or without a cause. These people have been tortured, and are looking for a safe space.

You also have children here who are currently being abused, who are telling horror stories of their current reality where they're used, exploited, controlled, violated, their identity and humanity erased, who exist only as a resource to the narcissists. They're looking for a way to recognize what is happening to them, why are they feeling this awful, and how to get out.

And of course, you have people in this community who have been abused in other kinds of circumstances and by other kinds of abusers, and we're all trying to figure out what the truth is, who to blame, how to get out of abuse, how to gain freedom, how to stay safe. So it's a community of heavily traumatized individuals, most of them very vulnerable to future abuse, a lot of them children, a lot of them abused and sensitive to other kinds of grooming and abuse.

Narcissists are infiltrating this specific community and demanding to be promoted as safe and non-dangerous, to these specific people. They're not trying to appeal to general public, to psychologically healthy, to people who have resources and community to protect themselves from abuse, no, they're aiming at this specific, already-abused, already groomed, vulnerable, struggling, traumatized community of people, and threatening to smear-campaign, cancel, expel and banish anyone who doesn't accept to view them as harmless.

Why would they do this? Which safe and harmless person would put themselves in a group of traumatized and vulnerable people to bully and threaten them for the sake of 'public image' and 'erasing the stigma'? Tell me what is humane about this. Tell me what is humane about asking a victim of narcissistic abuse to be narcissist-positive on their trauma-related blog. Tell me what is normal about telling a victim of torture to say positive thing about their torturer, or to be expelled from their community as a punishment.

You are extending our torture. You are now the extension of our trauma.

And when you're out here saying 'not all narcissists', tell me how do you know which ones then? Do you know that if you're saying this to a child, they might then happily accept a narcissist in their life, who then might end up torturing the kid? You don't know which ones are dangerous, and neither do they. Are you okay with that? Can you feel peace in your heart knowing you helped this to happen? Can you look at yourself knowing you went and claimed, to a vulnerable, or already-traumatized child or a vulnerable person, to accept this potentially dangerous individual in their life, who then hurt them? Will you tell them it's their own fault and to 'stop claiming narcissists are abusive' if they confide it to you?

You're not even thinking of what will happen to those kids. I was left with narcissists alone. I was locked up in a basement. I was beaten. I was forced to play games where I would end up inevitably tortured and told it was my fault for 'losing'. I was brainwashed into believing that I'm not a human being. I was denied food if I didn't do as I was told. I was brutalized and almost murdered. I was told I would be dead if I tried to escape. I will never recover.

And I'm not even one of the worst cases. Children have been thru worse. Children are going thru it right now.

If you feel safe recommending to children and the vulnerable, to go and accept narcissists in their life, this is what you're risking. This is what some of them are capable of. You don't know which ones. Are you really going to use children and most vulnerable people in society, to test and see if the narcissists would torture them or not? You're really going to tell them to go and associate themselves with a group that has a high count of predators, just so that the predators in the groups wouldn't be upset or feel excluded? Just so you'd feel safe from being told off by them? So you wouldn't have to deal with them?

If you can put kids at risk and feel like you've done nothing wrong, then I don't care what else you have to say. You can no longer pretend not to know. You can't pretend that defending narcissists is a kind gesture. You can't pretend to be 'inclusive' when you barge into a community of victims and tell them to shut up about the abuse they worked so hard to recognize. You can't pretend you're faultless when you insist that the most vulnerable people in the population should be accepting and positive about the most dangerous group to them, so you'd have it easier, so you wouldn't have to even look at what narcissists have already done to us.

We're not your shield. We're not here to be scapegoats for your cowardice. We're not sacrificing children because it's so easy and convenient to bow down to bullies. It's been enough of this. Respect our boundaries. We don't want narcissists to have access to us.

[chronicallyfckd]

I really need you all to understand the damage you're doing by continuously perpetuating the stigma around cluster B personality disorders. And I need you to understand that we are just as deserving of love and compassion, and especially respect, just like everybody else is. We are not monsters!

Did you even know that research has proven that we develop our disorders through genetic predisposition AND environmental causes, most notably repeated childhood trauma through abuse? Did you? The same abuse you claim all of us are actively partaking in by showing symptoms of our disorders. That abuse. Which are symptoms. Which are, inherently, trauma responses. But hey! That's right! Trauma responses Like That are only okay if the person has (C-)PTSD only. What? There's an extreme overlap between PTSD and cluster B PD's? No. That can't be! Cluster B is just abusive monsters and definitely not victims and survivors themselves!!! (/sarcasm) OH! And did you know that there's also a huuuge overlap between all of cluster B and autism? Especially BPD (but let's be real, all four fit...). Did you know that a lot of people are misdiagnosed with BPD, for example, when really they're only autistic? And vice versa. And some of us have both! (Like me!) Is every autistic person an abusive monster now, too? By your logic, they must be. But no. Autistic people are just big babies. They're so pure! Couldn't hurt a damn fly. (/sarcasm, again... Infantilisation of autism also needs to go.)

As if it isn't already shitty enough that this stigma is actively sabotaging our attempts at healing from our traumas and changing our reactionary behaviours... Because guess what - mental health "professionals" largely believe in the stigma and refuse patients for having any of these PD's. So, we can't even get the help we need and want. Therefore, we don't even get a chance at getting better.

Thanks for nothing. </3

[transmutationisms]

>if you are still acting like eating disorders are solely or even primarily a disease of 'female beauty standards' in the year 2023 please just stop talking

hadn't given it much thought, but i always assumed these were usually the main reasons, although upon reconsideration maybe not. i knew it wouldn't be '''only female beauty standards''' but kind of assumed it was due to other similar beauty standards/wants. are there many cases of people having ed's due to ocds or other reasons?

eating disorders are complex & it is seldom possible to trace them back to singular cause or root. certainly the emphasis on the 'thin ideal' & the social privileges afforded to 'beauty' play a role here, not least because the desire to be thin is often the impetus to begin dieting / energy restriction, which can easily progress into what others recognise as an 'eating disorder'. however,

it's reductive to say then that the 'eating disorder' is solely a result of beauty standards or the desire to be thin. there are certainly people who experience body dissatisfaction or weight stigma without engaging in the behaviours that make up an eating disorder. there are also people who do have eating disorders who are not focussed on body size or shape; often with these presentations you will see a lot of anxiety around food for any number of reasons, or sensory issues with eating. there are also disordered eating patterns that do not seek a smaller body at all (for example, you may hear of what is glibly referred to as 'bigorexia' eg in certain fitness communities).

like i said in that post, one of the issues with the 'beauty standards' explanation is it ignores the role of food insecurity in triggering disordered eating. in fact, "among adults, food insecurity is cross-sectionally associated with higher levels of overall ED pathology," meaning that treating these disorders as solely or primarily a desire to be thin is an extremely convenient way for clinicians to avoid engaging with the socioeconomic inequities and capitalist foodways that produce chronic and widespread energy deprivation, which in turn can trigger disordered eating.

men also have eating disorders lol. and i bring that up not to distract from women with eating disorders but to point out that these behaviours do occur in people who are not trying to look 'feminine' or conform to 'female beauty standards'. again, these are multi-faceted presentations, so there are usually many reasons any given person is dealing with an eating disorder; the psychology is complex.

i scare-quoted 'female beauty standards' in that post because i think that phrase itself is already tellingly reductive. as though there's one singular uncontested female beauty ideal, or even definition of 'female' lol. and taking a historical view we could also point out that self-starvation and other behaviours currently dx'd as an 'eating disorder' occurred throughout the written record for reasons wildly different than what current psychiatric discourse understands (for instance, medieval 'fasting girls' or indeed the food and water deprivation st augustine reports in his 'confessions'). again i don't deny that in current conditions, the thin ideal plays a role in these behaviours for many people—but it's reductive and does a disservice to suffering people to act like this is just a big issue of lacking self-love or needing to be told you're beautiful or whatever.

[eclaire-went-bam]

Hi I had a few questions about the Dutch Van Der Linde NPD post :-)

I'm not trying to be rude or an asshole, I'm just genuinely confused because there seemed to be conflicting things.

You seem to agree that he has NPD but then call folk ableist for calling him a narcissist. Saying they're demonizing personality disorders.

I know and understand why demonizing NPD amongst other personality disorders is bad. But I don't understand why people calling him a Narcissist = demonizing.

Dutch is a terrible person so obviously people would point out his terrible actions along with a possible personality disorder. Because the disorder is a huge part of his character for some folk, which I'm sure it is for you.

I guess what I'm really wondering is what do you classify as ableist when it comes to discussing Dutch and his possible NPD?

The post, or I guess the way things were worded, made it hard for me to see your point.

Thank you :-)

rolling around tysm for the ask /gen!!! i did word things a bit unclear bcs a lot of my posts are catred to ppl in my own community so don't worry :)

i'm also using terminology associated w/ npd in this post so refer to tags if you don't know what something means

it's a bit complicated & i tend to over-explain so strap in !!

acknowledging he is a narcissist is fine! but the term "narcissist" very specifically refers to a mental illness & is a term very often mishandled

the problem lies here!

on one hand, people will know narcissist refers to npd specifically, but they won't care & are thus very explicitly demonising pw/npd. i've seen a great many posts (not just from this fandom!) who will call a character a narcissist, and then will proceed to prescribe that as the reason why a character is a bad person. npd is a personality disorder which yes, can often cause a lot of interpersonal conflict if not properly coped with, but it can also present in numerous other ways (eg, people-pleasing) — people who are abusive don't generally have npd and pw/npd aren't all abusive (many are actually abused themselves! if i had a dime for every article/post i've seen detailing how to make a narcissist crash, i'd be rich lmao). so automatically correlating abusive behaviour w/ having npd is very damaging to pw/npd

or,

on the other hand (this i see Most often), someone doesn't really seem to know that being narcissistic is a mental health thing and are using that word as a stand-in for a plethora of negative words — which is really easy to do given how much it's used incorrectly in a lot of anti-npd short form content (tiktok, yt shorts, etc ...). someone may use the word "narcissistic" when they're trying to describe someone who's self-centred, or rude, or aloof, or vain, or abusive, when they could use any of those other words just as easily while both being correct, and not including that underlying stigma

the vast majority of posts i've seen refer to dutch as a narcissist, are using that word in a derogatory sense to air their frustrations with the character — not as a genuine analysis, and not acknowledging the nuances of npd

it is important to note, many of these people would not call a character who is seen as a good person a narcissist, even if they may exhibit many narcissistic traits in canon, because narcissism already has a really negative stigma attached to it that they would be perpetuating. if dutch did nothing problematic in the entire series, i'd still headcanon him as narcissistic, but i get the sense that many just wouldn't because it hinges so much on the worst of his character

an egotypical may see dutch being simply careless with anyone but his own skin as he drags everyone down with him and call him a narcissist

whereas for me, i may see him desperately trying to appear as the greater-than-life man everyone talks him up to be to the point of delusion and self-sabotaging while everything is falling apart around him and call him a narcissist because yea, me too honestly !!

the first position is often tying narcissism to a shallow and overwhelming negative view of a character, because one may already have a bias that narcissism = living your best life as your family falls apart or something

so imagine like ;;; an allistic seeing a blunt character that is often viewed in fandom as autistic, and calling them autistic because of the outward bluntness — especially if they view bluntness as a bad thing. this view may perpetuate stereotypes about autism while also not really offering any nuanced look at the character. that, vs an autistic person seeing the same character and maybe relating to how confusing that social interaction was, and how awkward it must must've been for the character realising they did x y and z "wrong."

using the same example, there could be a character in media that's considered extremely blunt and mean to others, who's implied to be autistic. it's fine to not like said character, lord knows i'm thinking of a Few i hate, and being autistic doesn't excuse people from being mean to others, but to insult a character for being blunt because of their autism is pretty ableist! just like how having npd doesn't excuse any characters abuse, and someone can not like their vanity, but it'd be kind of ableist to insult a character for being vain because of their narcissism

or just like how an autistic character may unintentionally be mean to somebody due to misunderstanding social cues/being overstimulated/etc and will thus be percieved as cold and unkindly, a narcissistic person may percieve small criticisms as really pointed attacks that can cause crashes, which can cause us to become defensive & be percieved as childish or uncooperative (here's a good post that talks abt how certain problems may appear from a narcs pov, for example). these are just little things that oftentimes people who don't have said condition may not understand, which can contribute to a really flat reading of a character based on More Stereotypes

of course, you don't have to have a specified neurotype or mental disorder to headcanon someone with something (though i definitely recommend the Nuance ahaha), but i get the sense that when ppl use "narcissistic" with dutch, it's less of a respectful headcanon that acknowledges the disorder & how distressing it can be to not only others around him, but him as well, and more as a jab coming from the users own personal experiences from people they didn't like, or as a way to explain specifically just his abusive behaviour & nothing else (which is already a yikes cus that implies someone's automatic association with abuse is people of a very specific stigmatised neurotype). and i mean hey, dutch does deserve. Like. Multiple Jabs. (understatement). but it shouldn't be at the expense of people who actually exist irl who struggle w/npd

no i do not excuse dutch's problematic/abusive behaviour, i literally physically recoil from my screen whenever i see him do literally anything, and it's pretty evident that untreated Issues™ definitely contributed to him going batshit (especially considering as far as every account i've seen go, he was pretty damn Decent in terms of 1800's outlaws prior to blackwater), but i can definitely say that i do rlly relate with some overarching themes with him & can often pretty much hear what he's thinking sometimes without necessarily thinking something he did was okay. & again, there are sooo many words in the english lexicon, people can definitely choose words that aren't specifically related to conditions when talking abt what they don't like about him

so many other headcanons, whether it be regarding race, gender, sexuality, neurodiversity, etc, are treated with a lotta respect on this website! you'll hardly ever find someone seriously insulting a character's headcanoned autism, or gender identity, or anxiety, with such genuine vitriol. i've seen people also headcanon dutch with major depression or bipolar, but i've seen nobody use either terms to insult him — because we all know that's insensitive. so why should npd be any different?

so yeah i hope this made it clear, i don't think its wrong or ableist at all to to have discussions about how a potential personality disorder could've affected his thinking or decisions, but a lot of the posts i've seen have been less about discussion and more of just finding ways to express their hatred of dutch. which ;; i'm sure you can imagine how tiring it gets to see these kinda posts which demonise something you are, in a community for a game you really enjoy, and just have everyone in the comments/tags kinda nod their head. nnnot fun to always catch strays ^^;

anyways that's my spiel tysm for the ask i really like to Yap™

[schizodiaries]

Thank you for all the responses on the renaming schizophrenia post. You all brought up excellent points and I don’t disagree with anyone’s take. Most if not all people who responded (including myself) were in favor of keeping the name as it is, and it’s easy to understand why. Here are just a few reasons people expressed in the comments of that post:

Renaming the disorder doesn’t change the core issue, which is the stigma surrounding the symptoms of schizophrenia. Renaming feels like running away from the core issue instead of confronting it.

People are going to be sanist regardless of what the name is, due to their preconceived notions of the illness.

Schizophrenia is not a bad word. Changing it would feel like trying to distance ourselves from the negative connotation the general public has given to schizophrenia. We should instead be focusing on removing that negative connotation.

Educating people and speaking up about our experiences with schizophrenia will do far more to destigmatize it than renaming it.

It will take a very long time for people to get accustomed to a new name, and changing it may just cause confusion. (Another example of this would be DID, a lot of older folks still refer to it as ‘multiple personality disorder’.)

I want to play devil’s advocate for a moment, and share some reasons for being in favor of changing the name. Just to offer a different perspective in case anyone hasn’t considered some of these.

The term “schizophrenia” is a bit of a misnomer, as it means “split mind.” Some people find this an inaccurate way to define the disorder and would like a better name.

The name has actually already been changed once before. Prior to Eugene Bleuler coining the term “schizophrenia,” the disorder was known as “dementia praecox,” meaning “early dementia.” This change was a little more than a century ago, but it shows that over time people will adjust to a new name.

In Japan, their word for schizophrenia was changed in 2005 to what translates to “disintegration disorder.” As a result of the name change, patients were more likely to seek treatment, as they were not ashamed of the name of their diagnosis. (x)

Regardless of which side of the coin you fall on, I think we can all agree that the general public still has a lot to learn about schizophrenia. No matter what the name is, there is a huge stigma attached to the disorder due to decades of poor representation and inaccurate portrayals in the media. Schizophrenia isn’t a bad word, but because of the stigma, people see it as bad. We can either drop the name along with the stigma and start anew, or continue advocating for the acceptance of what we have now. And as a stubborn person who doesn’t like giving into societal pressures, I know which one I’d choose.